Transcript: Cindy McCain on “Face the Nation,” June 25, 2023

The following is a transcript of an interview with Cindy McCain, World Food Programme executive director, that aired on “Face the Nation” on June 25, 2023.

MARGARET BRENNAN: We turn now to Cindy McCain, the executive director of the World Food Programme. Good to have you here in the U.S. I know you are in New York to testify to the UN Security Council about what’s happening in Somalia and the famine-like conditions there. You said your agency won’t have the funding to feed almost 3 million children, women and men? Why not? Why is it spiraling?

WORLD FOOD PROGRAMME EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR CINDY MCCAIN: Well, first of all, thank you for covering this. This is an important topic and the world needs to hear about it. We- there are a lot of fires in the world right now, there’s a lot going on. There’s a lot of countries that are in deep distress, Somalia being one of them. And so we’re spread pretty thin right now. And so to be able to continue the work that we do, obviously, we need- we need more help, but we need the world to pay attention to us also, and make sure that people understand iIt’s not just a security crisis in Somalia, it’s a humanitarian crisis as well.

MARGARET BRENNAN: I know you’re- you’re talking about in, a diplomatic turn, donor fatigue. Is it just a funding shortage? Or is there something more?

CINDY MCCAIN: No, by donor fatigue, I mean, countries have- who have- have really stepped up to play most recently, especially in the case of- of Ukraine. And- and people are now, countries are kind of stepping back saying, you know, we gave unprecedented amounts last year, we don’t have the kind of funding this year, and they’re a little tired. And so I certainly understand that. I don’t accept it, obviously, that’s why I’m here. But- But I understand that people do, you know, do- do look at things differently. More importantly, the most important thing to remember here is there are women and children who are going to starve unless we do step up to the plate.

MARGARET BRENNAN: I know you’ve recently lost some employees in Sudan, where the United States has pulled out because of the violence there. Are you still able to feed people despite the war?

CINDY MCCAIN: Well, we never left Sudan, we stalled for a little bit, we paused for a few days, because you’re correct, we did lose three people there. And we had to evacuate our other citizens, our other nationals as well as our international people out. But we never left. And so we are now, again, we’re back in, we’re distributing food. Again, reminding everyone it’s extraordinarily dangerous there right now. So our methods and how we’re doing it, we’re- are a little bit different. But we also have asked the UN, to please guarantee us a humanitarian corridor for us to be able to work and operate so we can deliver our food. It’s- it’s a combination and a very- it’s a combination of problems and it’s also very severe impact by- by the fact that the security issue is so, so strong there right now, and it’s so difficult for us to work.

MARGARET BRENNAN: You know, picking up on what you were talking about in regard to funding. I know the U.S. is the largest financial donor to the World Food Programme and the UN having given $7.2 billion, more than all other donors combined last year. Meanwhile, the world’s second largest economy, China, gave $11 million. How receptive is Beijing to your requests?

CINDY MCCAIN: Well, I’d like to encourage Beijing to get involved and be a part of this, we need not only do we need their funding, but we need their expertise on many things, their- their technology with regards to agriculture, and their technology with regards to climate change can be very helpful in these countries that are really struggling with drought and lack of food, etc. And by the way, I’m so proud of the United States, we’re always the first one to step up. And we always do so in a major way. And I’m very proud of that, of being a U.S. citizen, of course,

MARGARET BRENNAN: Well, on China, though, is the issue that the government wants credit, and so therefore, they want to do it under their own flag, and not through the international system, which you represent?

CINDY MCCAIN: I think to some degree, you’re correct on that. I think it’s also just a willingness to be a part of working together as a team worldwide. In these countries that we’re in, one agency cannot do- cannot do the job, we need partnerships. And so we encourage the Chinese and we encourage many- encourage many other countries around the world to partner with us. So that we can help feed people that are in such desperate need and also build resilience in many, many of these countries so that they can learn to feed themselves and- and can- can do so not only to support their own families, but to support the communities that they’re in.

MARGARET BRENNAN: You know, in the U.S., we’ve been having a lot of debates in Washington, as I’m sure you know, about funding and cutting back on future funding. That’s gonna get hot in the fall again. How concerned are you that the United States is going to have to pull back?

CINDY MCCAIN: Well, of course, I’m concerned about it and so that makes my job a little more difficult in this. I want to make sure that every member of Congress understands what’s at stake, if- if we were to, to pull out or pull back on things. It’s- it’s important that people understand that not only are people hungry, and starving, but- but the ability to be able to maintain a country who is not only hungry, starving, but also drought stricken, or abashed by climate change and bashed by insecurity. These are- these are risks that- risks that worldwide, can really make a difference to an entire region. So we’re looking at regions of Africa and regions of other parts of the world who are- who are not only desperate, but we- but we could lose them. And what we don’t want are people having to once again migrate, once again, you know, leave their homes or run to another place so that they can try to feed themselves and feed their families,

MARGARET BRENNAN: All those things are connected. I hear your argument there. You know, in the room, when you are trying to pitch the Security Council, you are looking at the United States, you are talking to China, you’re also talking to Russia, in addition to some other members, but I want to pick up specifically on the Kremlin, because they said this past week, there were no grounds to extend the Black Sea Grain Initiative, that is the deal under which Russia agreed to allow grain to leave the ports of Ukraine a country it is militarily occupying, that’s arguably weaponizing food. What’s the impact if that deal goes away?

CINDY MCCAIN: Well, the impact is, again, we’re short on grain and what does that mean? It affects a lot- a large portion of Africa. We’re also short on fertilizer, fertilizer is the other half of this that’s supposed to be coming out. And so without the fertilizer, in many cases, they’re not going to be able to grow crops that are as large or as productive as they could be. It’s for all the things that are going on, I truly wish that we could end this war so that we could begin, again to feed people around the world, and so that the Ukrainians can also feed themselves. What’s at stake here is starvation and famine. That’s what we’re looking at.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Well, there were just a number of African leaders who flew to Ukraine and then on to Russia to talk about this, because the entire continent of Africa has been impacted by these- issues linked to the war. Is there a contingency plan in place if this grain initiative goes away?

CINDY MCCAIN: Well, first of all, I welcome everyone talking about this issue. And I’m grateful that- that- that countries were getting together to discuss just this issue. Again, as I said before, there’s an awful lot at stake, and it’s primarily malnutrition. We can lose generations of children by- by just such a thing where we’re unable to feed- unable to- to offer fertilizers and more. That’s why we need to work together as a world community to make sure that we can help, not just feed people, but make sure people can remain safe and remain- remain in their country so they can feed themselves.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Are you optimistic that perhaps China could persuade Russia to allow grain and fertilizer to come out of Ukraine?

CINDY MCCAIN: I don’t know about that. I listen, I work on a daily basis just trying to feed people, I would hope that everyone would see the importance of feeding starving people.

MARGARET BRENNAN: I understand you on that. I want to ask you about something a little close to us shores, and that is Haiti. I know you were recently visiting. There’s been an uptick in migrants to the United States from Haiti, which is now largely controlled by gangs. How do you keep the food you are getting into that island nation out of the hands of criminals and into the mouths of starving children?

CINDY MCCAIN: Well, you’re exactly right. The country’s extraordinarily insecure, I literally came to New York from Haiti yesterday. It’s extraordinarily insecure and the gangs are controlling a large portion of the country. The importance is- is that the international community needs to be in there to not only help keep the country safe, but to- but to help us enable our organization other organizations to be able to move the grains around and move food around in general. The idea in- in Haiti, which is such a lush, tropical island- island, but it is also affected by climate change. It’s also affected by, by, you know, by land use. That’s- that’s been disastrously taken, you know, with regard to all that insecurity and all- all the issues that- we that we face with this, the important part of this is to remind the world that Haiti is still here, Haiti needs our help. I think the world community has taken a step forward and kind of forgotten Haiti a little bit. So- So my job, having returned from Haiti, is to remind the world that Haiti is still there, it still needs our help, it still needs food, it still needs security. And it needs to be able to- to prosper in a way so that they don’t lose a generation of children. And that we can, again, once not only feed women and children, but make sure that they can feed themselves in a sustainable and resilient way.

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MARGARET BRENNAN: Broadly speaking, extreme weather, is a factor that’s affecting crops and migration. You’ve said climate change is influencing the situations in a number of the examples you just gave? Where are you seeing an impact the most?

CINDY MCCAIN: Well, one of the places is The Sahel. I mean, if you could see what’s down there and see the impact that the- the climate change has had on it. So what we’re- what we’re doing with regards to the Sahel and other regions, particularly in Africa, is water management, or teaching ancient ways, which are very simple to do. But ways to not only catch water, contain water, but then use water obviously, to grow things. It’s a tremendous issue, though. And climate change, not just in Africa, or the Sahel, climate change is worldwide. And we’re going to be seeing, you know, we’re having to manage crops now that they have to be more resilient to drought, our animal feed, and things have to be more resilient, so the animals can be more resistant to drought. There’s a lot of things at stake here. And I think when people talk about climate change, and those naysayers that think climate change isn’t real. I’d like to take him to the Sahel and show him what’s real.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Are you talking to anyone in Congress to take them with you?

CINDY MCCAIN: I’ll take anybody. I’ll take anybody with me. I want them to see what’s at stake here. Because there really is a lot at stake. And I think the more we can show people- it’s one thing to talk about it, It’s another thing to see it.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Cindy McCain at the United Nations. Thank you. 

CINDY MCCAIN: Thank you. 

MARGARET BRENNAN: We’ll be right back.